Emily: I’m here with Amanda Frasier, who is the President of Ratings for Forbes Travel Guide, and we’re here at their annual summit. So, Amanda, for the Hospitality Daily listeners that don’t know you, tell us a bit about how you got into hospitality.
Amanda: So I spent 13 years in hospitality before I started working for then Mobil Travel Guide, now Forbes Travel Guide. And for me, it was a little bit of happenstance. I always knew quite early on that I wanted to travel. Travel was the thing I wanted to do, but how I was going to do that was the big mystery. I was very fortunate to have Paris. They didn’t force me to go any particular path. It is really whatever I wanted to be passionate about. And, you know, I went to a career evening one night at our local college. There was a classroom open where they were discussing travel and tourism. And one of the things I remember, I don’t remember everything, of course, but one of the things was that it was going to be a trip and that the students got to plan the overseas trip. And I thought, phenomenal, that’s it. That’s all I want to do. You know, I could have done, I think I went to the college that night to look at something else, maybe a course in spa or wellness, I think, or something. And so that’s what I wanted to do. That’s what I ended up signing up for. I went to college for two years and did. what was called a national diploma. Where did you grow up? In the UK. So I was born in London and lived in the Midlands for a while. So it was a great, great college, technical college, and did that for two years and then had the chance, of course, like we all do to continue education and do higher, higher, even higher education. But there was something about me. At that point, I already knew by the time I finished my course that it was hotels. And that was going to be the thing. So I got my first job in a gorgeous country house hotel in close to my home. I was, you know, young, only just newly started driving and that was the bug. So I already had the travel bug and I got the hotel bug and kind of, as they say, the rest is history.
Emily: Yeah. And then how did you end up moving to the US?
Amanda: Oh, well, how long do we have? Yeah, that’s so, you know, I think We all know there’s a publication called The Caterer. Yeah. And whenever that used to arrive to our hotel, we’d get a copy behind the front desk. And the first thing we would all do, and I was speaking to someone else the other day who grew up in the UK in hospitality, you flip to the back and you see what fabulous jobs there are in your business. And because you’re always looking To educate yourself and get more exposures to different different properties and to travel right? Yeah, I want to travel so there was an opportunity initially To move to Bermuda, which is where I spent a couple of years in a Berlin Chateau When I worked at those small properties, that’s when I got my okay now I want to specialize in niche I want to really go into luxury I like small hotels, and that’s kind of where I started to develop my passion for the industry a bit more. And soon after that, there was a fairly new hotel that was opening again, small, in New York, and applied, got the job, and that’s kind of how I came to the United States. That was 2001.
Emily: Oh, amazing. And from there, you transitioned into the world of ratings.
Amanda: Yes, it was a little bit more of a journey. I still did several years in operations before eventually I found out that Mobil Travel Guide at the time was looking to find ways to broadened their reach. Everyone knew Mobile Chat. Everyone knew Smoking Trial Guided. It was a star rating system. I tried for years to earn five stars and never could. Why? Because we didn’t know what we were being graded on. We didn’t know what the criteria were. There was no transparency. It was a completely opaque system. And then one day I found out that Mobil was exploring the opportunity to become more transparent with their standards through this new platform that they were launching. And we got it at our hotel and I thought, this is fascinating. I’ve always wanted to know kind of what happens and how it happens. So I applied for the role of an inspector, got that role, and again, the rest is history.
Emily: And what was your biggest takeaway from going from operations into the inspection side? I mean, was there any wow moment at that point?
Amanda: You know, I think the thing that always sticks with me, and we talk about this when people now apply to be an inspector, and we talk about this with the young lady that heads up on operations as well, is that You think as a hotel GM or a hotel executive that you would make the best inspector. And I kind of thought that a little bit too, that I would make, you know, but actually when you are so ingrained in the operation, actually you make the worst inspector because you’re looking at things through the eyes of an operator and not through the eyes of a guest. And the one thing that really sets our system apart from maybe other systems that are out there is the way that we write our standards, that I write the standards, our team, is that we do it from the guest perspective. We’re not writing SOPs and we’re not writing for particular brands. We’re writing a roadmap and how the properties arrive at that roadmap is up to them. It’s not an instruction book. It’s a set of criteria. How many criteria is it? It’s a couple of hundred. It’s more than 500. Is it 700? So if we’re evaluating a property that has a restaurant and a spa, then it’s well worth it.
Emily: So tell me a little bit about, we’re here at the summit and this is a sort of celebration, but So let’s come up to today’s standards and ratings and a bit about that process. How do hotels get involved? And then we could talk a bit about the summit as well.
Amanda: So we were talking with the group this morning that, interestingly, I think because it’s not that well known, and this is why it’s important to talk about it, is, Again, with our ratings system, it’s not a pay-for-play system. So you can raise your hand and show interest in earning a spot on the list, but you can’t pay money to be on the list. We don’t accept any exchange of, you know, there’s no business relationship required is what I want to say.
Emily: And you just pick based on, you know, the research that you constantly do about who are the new hotels and where you should be evaluating.
Amanda: We have a fantastic team that day in day out are doing that research, looking at what’s happening, looking at the pipeline, seeing what’s opening, studying data, where are people traveling, and then how do people travel. So we use all of that information because we’re in the privileged position to thousands of inspections a year across now 90 countries. So it’s a very specific and fine-tuned process that we’ve refined and refined and refined over the years. And, you know, I think contrary to popular belief, it’s not a group of us sitting around a table thinking, how can we make it harder this year to catch everyone out? We absolutely are. in collaboration with the industry. And that’s part of that commitment that I mentioned that attracted me to the company in the first place was that commitment to be transparent and to be more of a partner than kind of a them and us type role.
Emily: Amazing. And you’ve been with the company 20 years. I mean, what kinds of changes have you seen in the luxury traveler? You know, a lot.
Amanda: Um, from, and you know, I was talking about this this morning. I think it comes, the reason the traveler has changed their perception of luxury is because it’s easier access to education about luxury and the ability to listen to different opinions and to hear different educators. And I mean, I’m talking about doing this, I’m talking about my phone, internet. So we all have, I mean, obviously 20 years ago, we didn’t actually, I remember my first iPhone. The first phone I had as an inspector was BlackBerry. iPhones weren’t even launched. So instant access to information in your hand was not a thing. But, you know, fast forward 20 years, that education around people’s different perceptions of luxury and what it means to them. I think the consumer has taken more control over what luxury is and are not allowing anyone else to dictate it. It’s how you want to travel, right? And being comfortable is luxurious. So if it’s comfortable to you, if you want to go to a restaurant and wear jeans and a blouse, or if you want to go to a restaurant and wear a suit, you should be able to do whatever makes you feel comfortable. The dress code doesn’t necessarily dictate that it’s luxury or not. So we don’t have, that’s why, you know, we are dress code standard for uniform. We don’t say it must be a traditional black suit. We say whatever is appropriate for the start.
Emily: Right. And then how do you test or rate for things like intuitive service or, you know, some of these other things, who’s at the end of the day, you know, we hear a lot of these trends talking different things and Ultimately, it comes down to the people that are serving you.
Amanda: That’s 100 percent. You’ve got to hire for that. You can train technical things, of course, how to operate the PMS system, how to check somebody out, what’s your process for making a bed? All of that is trainable. But what you can’t train is passion, because that has to come from within. And I mean, you know, when you’re talking to someone, you get a sense of you have that kind of intuition whether you’re being genuine or it doesn’t feel quite right, it feels a bit forced, maybe you’ve already had to go through these same sets of questions with the person in front of you. So when we train the evaluators and we have again a fabulous team that trains the evaluators They’re looking for that in the interview process because that’s an important part of being authentic. You can’t train authenticity, you can’t train passion.
Emily: Yeah, I guess you’re right. It comes down to how you’re searching for talent and then also what you do to train them in terms of style. making the experience. Yes, which I’m putting transitioning slightly with my hertelier hat at ILTM where I saw you last. There was a lot of talk about the rise of the female traveler and how women make 80% of the decisions when it comes to luxury travel. There’s also this new movement where there’s a lot of female solo travelers, virtuoso has called this year the year of the Wonder Woman. And yeah, I’m just wondering if there’s things that you do in terms of the raise and standards that might impact the female traveler.
Amanda: You know, we don’t write any standards specifically for females because at the end of the day, feeling comfortable and feeling well cared for is something we want, you know, the hotels to strive for, for all the guests. But what we do have, and again, because we don’t write specifications on how things should be done but rather the emotion you want to create in a guest so for an example if you want somebody as a hotelier if you want your guests to feel that their movements around the guest room for example were you comfortable in your guest room was exceptionally comfortable that means different things to different people and while that can be frustrating for a hotelier Well, we send a female guest in versus maybe a male guest. Maybe one trip is a yes and one trip is a no. And then we often have conversations. And I say, well, listen, you told me last month that this was a yes and this month it’s a no. It should be a yes all the time. Well, it should. But if you’re not designing your building, training your staff, operating your services with the consideration of how different types of people move around a property, then it is going to be inconsistent.
Emily: Well, I mean, one of the topics I hear from female travelers and female hoteliers is this extra attention that they would pay towards making women feel safe, right? So I think when we’ve spoken about this before, like the idea of when someone knocks at your door, like, can you see them? I mean, is that something as well that you guys look into?
Amanda: Again, we don’t have a specific standard for it because you don’t have to dictate because when it comes into things that are to do with security, that can often be dictated by your destination and that’s not the area you want to have expertise in. But we do want to make sure that the guest always does. And you know, if we have a female traveler that for whatever reason felt uncomfortable, that could negatively impact their experience. It’s going to show up in some way in the evaluation. Now, is it going to make or break the difference between whether that proxy earns a 4 or a 5? Maybe not, but it’s important we see it and it allows us to refine our standards over the years. So, for example, priests saw every time they travelled that there was a real issue with you know, how winds are customized for female travelers. That could be a conversation we would have around that table. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
Emily: Let’s transition a bit to what’s happening here at the summit and then some of the new things you’ve announced. I mean, I’m sure our listeners would like to hear about that.
Amanda: Yeah, we’ve announced a lot. I don’t know how even I’ve already done all of them. So, you know, the reason we have this summit, actually I should take a step back. why people come to this summit is a qualification. It’s not an event you can just pay for a ticket online and off we go.
: You have to be qualified to receive him, right? You don’t say what you buy, and you either advise it, the official media, or you’re a branch that you’re working with. And in the case of the Hintellis, you earn the star award. So that’s okay, because she’s wide, very limited, so it takes space for this.
Amanda: And then, you know, as hot shovelbite has evolved over the years and refined what it’s done and broadened its scope, we see ourselves very much as a brand that likes to offer solutions. So just like I mentioned before, we’re not a brand that’s dev in us, but very much how can we work together? How can we partner? How can we collaborate? We literally call our hotels that we work with partners. And, you know, we see it that way. And again, that transparency that was initiated 20 years ago now is something that each business center within the organization commits to. In ratings, we commit to that transparency through open communication, through our SAC, our standards advisory committee. So we’re talking about standards. We can talk about those standard changes. with the industry. We seek their input. We seek their guidance, too, because if you’re not collaborating, then you’re not really in partnership.
Emily: Exactly. No, I think that it’s not all smart. It’s so smart that you ask the industry, too, because, of course, they’re there on the front lines as well, seeing what people are asking for and how things are changing. And they set their hand on a pulse. I was also, I was really impressed with this new award and collaboration around retail and experience. Talk to me a little bit about that.
Amanda: So the tagline of the summit is where travel and luxury meet. And what we mean by that is not only do we physically meet here at the summit in Monaco, but also where we have the opportunity to collaborate and to come up with new ideas and something that we’ve been watching. And while I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a new trend, it’s definitely a trend that’s, you know, gaining a lot of momentum is this collaboration between hotels and either retail brands or, you know, other types of luxury brands. And it’s interesting to see, but this, these partnerships are really providing you know, an elevated guest experience. Some of them are fun, some of them are a bit more serious, but they’re adding a new dimension and a new way of thinking about how you travel as well. So on the stage this morning, you saw the Ritz Paris and frame. received a retail collaboration, which is just so much fun. And then for the best experiential collaboration, it was Atlantis the Royal. And Kim Bartlett flew in from Dubai to come and accept our awards.
Emily: I mean, that was really cool with the Witan pool and all the things they had done to elaborate the pool experience. And I loved watching this evolution. I think it’s great that Forbes Travel Guide is celebrating that because we’ve written about it as this you know merging of retail and and experience and and hospitality and you know the data shows that people are actually trying to spend more money on experiences so it makes sense if you’re a retailer like hey why don’t we go where the guest is at. That’s 100% and then forget on the guest side
Amanda: You want to feel close to a brand. You want to feel that authentic connection. And what better way to do that than, you know, you know, you bought the t-shirt, right? Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. And some of those t-shirts are really cool, these t-shirts.
Amanda: They are. And, you know, from a corporate standpoint, the revenue opportunity there, and you take, you know, take the kind of, the revenue opportunity is just incredible because it
Emily: at Sprann Valley. Right. Right. And also maximizes the real estate where it was once maybe a tired gift shop is now an exclusive boutique. So I love that. I love that. Another thing is actually we are seeing a lot more. I even notice it here at the summit. You’re seeing more women in leadership and luxury properties. Have you noticed that as well? Definitely.
Amanda: It’s interesting. There’s definitely It’s turning. It is turning. I mean, when you look back maybe just even a couple of years ago at the presence of the mix, the demographical mix, but it’s got a little bit of a way to go because sometimes even when I’m putting the show together and I’m thinking about our panels, who our individuals will be, sometimes it’s still a little bit of a struggle to think, okay, who are the great, you have to really think a little bit harder.
Emily: Well, you did well, because I feel like at least from this first day, it’s in very balance. And like I said, I feel in general, the vibe is more equitable.
Amanda: You’ve got to have that balance in energy, right? So it’s not just about pick a woman because we need a woman. It’s got to be obviously an amazing woman. And we’re so fortunate to have so many of them here. you know, at the end of the day, it’s about box, you know?
Emily: Well, I love seeing Reena Shaw up on the stage with Mary Rogers. I mean, those are two stars who must be a fan of you.
Amanda: Mary, she’s my favorite. I know.
Emily: She was great. Very exciting. So thank you so much, Amanda, for the time. I really appreciate it. And I wish you a lot of success.
