Emily: I’m Emily Goldfisher, founder and editor-in-chief of hertelier. And I’m here with an incredible panel today, starting with my partner at hertelier, Nancy Mendelson.
Nancy:
Thank you! And what a wonderful way to celebrate hertelier’s fourth anniversary with our first ever LinkedIn Live. And it is such a great pleasure to welcome our very special guests, Amanda Al-Masri, the Vice President of Wellness for Hilton. I love that title, Amanda. I really do. And Emily Hoyt, the CEO of Lather and Emily, Australian Plum Products. I love them. I’m a super fan. And welcome to all of you who are joining us today. I don’t know about all of you, but daylight savings time is messing with my head and with my sleep. And I was talking with a friend of mine the other day, and we were talking about that, and I was telling her about this session, and she said, you know, I actually sleep better in a hotel than I do at home. And I thought, Hmm, that’s very interesting. I think I do, too. And if I don’t start sleeping better soon, Amanda, I am going to be checking into the nearest Hilton. So I bet you hear this a lot, you know, that people sleep better.
Amanda:
There’s several reasons, but I’ll hit you with a statistic first, which is that 50 percent of people globally say they sleep better in a hotel, and a full two-thirds of Americans say they sleep better in hotels than they do at home. And some of that is that we’ve removed a lot of the obstacles to sleep that we have at home, right? The laundry that needs folding, or the children that need tending, or all the other little bits and pieces that get in the way of our good, healthy routines. But the other piece is that we really are thoughtful about how we craft our hotel rooms, our hotel experiences, the stay overall, to ensure that you get the best rest possible. So everything from making sure that these core elements are always in place, right? It needs to be cool, it needs to be dark, and it needs to be quiet. Those are the three most important variables to getting a great night’s sleep. And we’ve really built that into absolutely each one of our 24 brands.
Emily:
I mean, talk a little bit about, if you don’t mind, the, you know, kind of the Hilton process of how you break down the different customer touch points and, you know, select the products that go with that.
Amanda:
Well, I think I’ll start by saying, you know, sleep is more than just when you lay your head on the pillow. So when we think about the ecosystem around sleep, it’s not just the mattress and it’s not just the bedding. Those things are incredibly important. And each of our 24 brands has a unique perspective on how we built that out. But it’s also the moments that prepare you for sleep and then the moments after that allow you to make the best use of the sleep that you have, whether that’s an optimal amount or less than optimal amount. Either way, there’s a reason that you came to stay with us, and we want to make sure that you’re prepared for whatever that reason that is, whether it’s business travel or leisure travel or some merger of the two. So it’s everything from food that you may need to eat, right? If you have an overnight transatlantic flight, for example, you get in, you’re hungry, and all of the restaurants are closed, but you don’t want to go to sleep hungry. You’re not going to sleep well if you’re hungry. So how do we make sure that you have the food that you need whenever you need to eat it? And then it’s everything from how do we help people that have created wonderful sleep habits at home? How do we allow them to keep those routines while they’re traveling? And it’s everything from making sure that they have some wonderful tools at their fingertips. For example, we just did a wonderful partnership with Calm, which is actually going live this week. And it lives on our media platform in all of our guest rooms. You’re able to see calm sleep stories, white noise, lots of other meditations that prepare you for a great night’s sleep. But conversely, that when you get up, we also have wonderful ways to sort of rise and shine. So it’s everything from the big to the small detail.
Emily:
That’s amazing. I mean, since you mentioned, I mean, Emily, let’s, let’s talk to you a little bit about the amenity experience. And we’ve actually got some great comments in the chat about, you know, if you sleep better in a luxury hotel or a cheap hotel, I love that Kate Buehler said, I actually sleep better in a cheap hotel. Um, but you know, I think it’s like the sensory elements. And I mean, Emily, if you could speak about how you, approach that?
Emily:
Yeah, I think when we look at putting our products, partnering with properties and having our products, mostly in the shower or in the bathtub by the sink, but we also do pillow sprays and other types of balms to help sleep as well. But when we look at what kind of products, we really try to take in consideration the guest’s experience and knowing that they’ve traveled, they are vulnerable, they’re in a new place, even if they’re traveling to a familiar place, it’s not home, and make it as conducive to feeling good and feeling healthy as possible. And what that means to us is making sure all our products have very nourishing ingredients that are comforting, that are unisex, that have a sensorial experience. We use a lot of essential oils and we have products that can help relax with lavender. We also have products in that help you wake up, like peppermint or more stimulating scents. And so we try to think about how people are using these products. So for if we have a product with lavender, we might put it more in a bath bomb because people will take baths more at night than they do in the morning. With a product that has more stimulation and stimulating ingredients, such as a peppermint or spearmint, we put it in the shower as a shampoo. And even if you’re taking a shower at night and you have that shampoo that’s maybe stimulating, we’ll follow it up. We always have like a more calming body lotion. And we really try to think about the fact that we are caring for people in a vulnerable state, literally naked in their shower in a new environment. You can’t be much more vulnerable than that. And we really try to make sure that whatever product they put on their body will support them through the day and the night and feel their best.
Nancy:
So is it fair to say from an amenities perspective and a sleep perspective that wellness in a hotel is an art and a science? Day one? Either of you. I mean, let’s see. Yeah. It does seem that way, that there’s measurements, there’s data, there’s just gut instinct, too. Yeah.
Amanda:
Yes, absolutely. And it’s interesting. We’re speaking about showers. The number one reason that people either love or dislike their stay is based on shower and sleep experience. Those are two of the most important variables that influence guest satisfaction. So one, we’re always trying to get that right, but so much of what we’re thinking about is exactly what Emily is saying, right? Making sure that we’re not just putting in a functional shower. We’re putting in a beautiful shower experience, and that the amenities are there to support an overall experience or reflect sense of place or do some sort of storytelling for us. And increasingly, and particularly, you know, within my world, we’re always thinking about how we embed wellness into things that are already happening. So my bleed of, you know, our strategy goes into areas that maybe it hasn’t historically in the past, right? So we’re part of food and beverage conversations like we never were before. We’re part of supply chain conversations that we weren’t part of before. How do we bring guest room experiences into a more wellness-focused point of view. And even, you know, in terms of booking path, we’re piloting a way to bring in recovery tools as a, as a kit, as an add on. So as part of a booking path, you get an option. Do you want to pay for parking? Do you want a recovery kit? Right. So it’s also now part of revenue management strategy. So it’s really, it’s really come a very long way since I started in the industry before it candidly, it was really even an industry. It’s really, become such an important part of how we do business. One, because it drives revenue, creates novel revenue streams, but two, because this is a critical way that we draw guest satisfaction, right? So many guests, more than ever before across all demographics, are traveling as wellness travelers, people that consume wellness offerings, but that are not uniquely wellness travelers, meaning they’re not just traveling for wellness. They’re traveling for other reasons, but they’re consuming wellness services, products. They’re engaging with us from a wellness standpoint. And that’s a huge number of guests, and particularly Gen Z and millennials really want to engage with us in that space.
Nancy:
How does that work across 24 brands, Amanda? I mean, that’s pretty daunting because you’ve got all different price points and experiences and how does that work?
Amanda:
Yeah, you’re still on me Nancy. No, look, I think it’s a lot of enterprise level programs where we can, and that does double duty. One, of course, it allows us to focus on all 24 brands at once. But two, so many of our Hilton guests are one of our $220 million honors loyalists. And so they’re traveling within all of those 24 brands. So they want that consistency. So they may not necessarily care that it’s a Hilton or a Curio or a Waldorf Astoria as much as they care that the things that matter to them are consistent from hotel and hotel to hotel and market to market and even region to region. So that consistency is a huge reason that we look at enterprise projects. I mentioned the Calm Partnership. Another one is our Peloton Partnership. But, you know, in terms of brand, we often work by category. So for example, in our focus service category, we start thinking about what are our key touch points, right? So they’re not necessarily the same touch points that we have in lifestyle, luxury, and even full service. But we do have touch points that cross over into this wellness space. And what that’s look like for us, for example, is really a deep dive into our top of bed and mattress experience. and a deep dive into more wellness-oriented sundries and forgotten items in our retail shops. Our retail shops are a key touch plate and a key way that we provide service without additional headcount. So this was really a natural follow-on to some work we had done to introduce healthier-for-you items into these retail environments as well. We’re pulling through some messaging with some more wellness-oriented self-care retail.
Emily:
Let’s, let’s go, let’s go back a little bit. And you mentioned the mattresses and the pillows and the linens. Like, I mean, that’s, that’s the main thing, right? I mean, we’re talking about sleep. Kate, let’s talk a little bit about mattresses and how you pick mattresses and how that works. And then also, just again, we’ve gotten some great comments in the chat. And when you were talking about the shower, Kate was saying, the shower is the one place where you can’t look at your phone. There’s no distractions.
Amanda:
That’s 100% true. And it’s a place where you unwind or get ready for the day, as Emily said, right? It’s one of those moments that is really formative in the routine that you have around sleep. And as part of our work around sleep, we brought in a wonderful professor and sleep scientist from Harvard School of Medicine and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston Ms. Rebecca Robbins, Dr. Rebecca Robbins, and she worked with us to determine the key variables, the levers that we can pull with our, what we call our filled product, right? So for those that may be less familiar with this category, those are like your duvets and your pillows, and as well, the mattress. So we talked about how do we, you know, there’s a stack of, I guess, like foam, padding, right? How do you build that out optimally? But you also have to start thinking about, as we do, thinking about how do you ensure that this meets the widest spectrum of preferences for a large number of guests? And how do you think through some of the key components that we have in hospitality, one of which is the encasement that we use for our pillows and for our mattresses? And those look a little different from property or even region to region. But some of the things that we’re getting baked into, not our mattresses, but others, don’t ever really find their way to the gas because they’re the the advantages that they have don’t actually make their way through the casement right so we’re making sure that all these things are realized and that the variables are being thought through. But the big finding. I mentioned earlier, it needs to be cool. As someone going through menopause, I know that I myself get very hot at night. And certainly you can adjust the temperature and HVAC is a big piece of that puzzle. But the bedding itself, the bedding breathes, it’s cooling. and that it’s enough that if you need more, you can add, but it’s not so cool that you’re sort of cold and uncomfortable. So right, we’re having to find that happy medium without creating too much operational complexity for our housekeeping and Maurice teams.
Emily:
right and let’s talk about the pillows so uh pillow menus um also pillow sprays i mean emily maybe we talk about the scent aspect of how we get ourselves ready to sleep and then we could talk a bit about pillow choices
Emily:
Yeah, for sure. You know, there’s been so much research into various components of different essential oils and their effect on our body. Essential oils are from plants and they are a very small molecule. They can penetrate very deeply into your skin, and when you inhale them, they go much deeper, and they are much healthier when used appropriately than many of the synthetic fragrances, which have a much larger molecule and can be very irritating. So we look at things like lavender, chamomile, lemon balm, some different ingredients that have been proven to sort of calm down the nervous system. And I love pillow sprays, I love balms that can go on the temple. It’s a nice way for the guests to have the choice to use it or not. and many people really enjoy that. The most popular scent is lavender and it’s been the most researched. But there’s other ones as well that work. And it’s also important to make sure that the products in the shower, by the sink, are moisturizing because we lose, we get so dehydrated on airplanes, and we get so dehydrated in travel, and when we have dry or itchy skin, it can help us from falling asleep and from relaxing as well. So we want to make sure we have very rich moisturizing lotions in the room that will really help soothe and repair the dehydrated skin that we get from travel. And I think that helps a great sleep experience as well. It’s when you feel really great in your skin and you feel soft and fresh and moisturized to get into those nice sheets and have your perfect pillow and maybe spray a little lavender, put a little lavender balm on your temples. It can be- Love of pillow spray.
Emily:
I just stayed at Le Fay in the Dolomites and they have a pillow spray with a whole note. It was such a special touch point. That’s wonderful. What are some of the creams that you, you know, you talk about dry skin. I mean, that is, that’s a great point. I mean, what are some of the ingredients that you put in the creams?
Emily:
Oh my gosh, everything from very rich ingredients like shea butter, to sweet almond oil, barrage oil, evening primrose oil, there’s a lot of beautiful oils that help to soothe the skin and are universally accepted for different skin types. You want to make sure that even people with super sensitive skin can use a product that’s going to feel soothing to them and not create some sort of inflammatory response. So we’re really cautious of the oils in the base product. And then again, I’m a huge fan and believer in essential oils, but it’s necessary and important to use them at the right amounts because even beautiful natural products, when used at the wrong amounts or used in inappropriate ways, can set off allergic reactions. I mean, people are allergic have hay fever and that’s natural. So it’s not simply something natural, it’s something for me, ingredients that have been studied and proven to be soothing, to be healing and repairing, and then also provide that sensorial experience whether we want to sort of calm down the nervous system or wake up and send a message to our brain that it’s time to start the day. You know, scent is so powerful on our central nervous system, on our moods, and then it’s also linked more than anything else to emotions and memories. So all of those aspects come in mind when we’re putting together products.
Nancy:
Before we go full pillow, and I really do want to do that, I have one more question for Emily. You work with a variety of hotel brands. How do you determine, with that brand, the appropriate scent for that brand and the appropriate products?
Emily:
You know, we sit down and speak with the property about who their guests are, why people are traveling. Is it mostly vacation or business? What is the gender makeup? Where are they maybe traveling from? How far? what their demographic of the hotel is. Is it in a city? Is it by the ocean? We have different collections within our Lather brand that are geared both in how they’re formulated and how they’re packaged aesthetically to match different environments. But then we also have a whole custom division that works with hotels to address all of those elements and many times bring in local ingredients, partnering with local farmers or other local providers to do more of the storytelling and provide provide people with, you know, a sense of place and a unique experience to that location.
Nancy:
Great. Oh, I love that. Pillow time.
Emily:
Pillow talk?
Nancy:
Should we talk about pillows? Yeah, I mean, I just I have to say that my bed is so full of pillows. Why? Because the experience of going to a hotel with a lot of pillows made me feel very special. So now the bed is full of pillows, thanks to Hilton, among other brands. And is there a science to the pillow?
Amanda:
There is. And so I’ll try and I’ll do my best to put on my Dr. Robbins hat, who’s our sleep scientist. And very much depends on what type of sleeper you are is the most comfortable pillow for you. But as we start to interpret that through the lens as hoteliers, it gets really complex. So you’ll see what we do in many of our brands, if not most of our brands, is we have a variety of pillows on the bed when you arrive, right? So some soft pillows, some firmer pillows and hopefully that allows you to sort of choose your own adventure. Now where I think you’re headed is the dreaded pillow menu, which I think plays out well in some particularly luxury categories or where you have a very high staff to guest ratio and plenty of back of house space to accommodate. What’s true is A couple of things. One, a lot of people don’t actually, at least in Hilton, don’t actually use that menu. We love to talk about it in earned media and say that we have it. How it actually plays out in operations is, you know, guests use it in sort of a less, it’s a less used amenity than one might expect. The other side of it is it’s an operational nightmare. So having to have multiple pillows, making sure that they get checked back in from rooms so that you are starting with the same standardized set of pillows in the room, right, means that you’ve got housekeepers moving pillows all over the place. Do they get miscategorized when they get logged back in? You know, all of those things. It’s really, really tricky. Where we’ve found success. is in rooms where we are specifically appealing to a target wellness consumer, particularly around sleep. So for example, we have a beautiful pillow menu in Conrad, Orlando, where we have wellness suites that have been built for a wellness consumer. Those, I believe there are 6. I may be misspeaking by 1 or 2. I believe there’s 6 of those suites. That’s manageable. And there’s an upcharge so we can justify the additional, you know, sort of manpower required to facilitate that program. But, you know, if you think about a 350-key hotel and you’re trying to deal with pillow changes, that better have some massive added value in order to accommodate. And that’s what we sort of struggle when we consider those types of programs that sound wonderful on paper, but are really challenging to operationalize unless you’ve got an ultra luxury or high staff to guest ratio.
Nancy:
Yeah. Do you find that any guests ever, I mean, I know that many of us, myself included, do take home the odd bathroom amenity, but do you find that guests ever take home a pillow?
Amanda:
You know what? Yes, of course. You know, it depends a bit on the guest. What we actually find is a lot of guests bring their own pillows, especially younger travelers. Emily, I think you were telling us about your son and go out as a habit. And that’s very typical of our younger travelers. I think what that speaks to is the fact that people have a very specific way sometimes that they fall asleep, get to sleep, stay asleep. And so they want to make sure that they can continue that. So I think one of the things we’ve started to do is started talking about the types of pillows and top of bed and mattresses we have so that if people find it’s important to them, they can research and get the answers they’re looking for and trust that they’re going to have what they need when they get there versus the sort of unknown, oh, I better bring it just in case kind of feeling. People do take them, but I think just as often and probably more often they’re bringing them themselves, which I have never done. But, you know, there are moments in time where sometimes you’re like, I could use my familiar home pillow.
Emily:
That is such a good point about the pillows and the communication about how you, you know, tell your guests about the guests about the different wellness programs and availability of them. And actually the chat is blowing up about how You know, lights, and when you get into a room and you’re trying to go to bed, you know, you can’t shut the TV off, you can’t figure out how to turn the lights off. I mean, you know, Amanda, back to you on how do you communicate?
Amanda:
Marion, I’m right there with you. Yeah. So, you know, hopefully, you know, what we’re doing in Hilton is making sure that all of those controls are intuitive. But, you know, speaking more broadly as hoteliers, right, you know, I think It’s the ability to very easily have a, you know, sort of set light standard, for example, right? Morning, afternoon, evening, or work or sleep, or work or wind down, right? And we often put those into our rooms so you can very easily set the mood with one button as opposed to having to go figure out where the various light switches and, you know, actual like turn off, right? Or there’s that one light over your bed and you’re like, where the hell is that switch, right? We’re always making sure that that doesn’t exist, right? There needs to be some level of standardization. And, you know, so I think you’re really hitting the nail on the head when you say, It’s not just about where you put the bed and where the window is and the light blocking shades. Somebody mentioned the smoke detector light and the door sweep is not quite all the way to the floor, so there’s a little strip of light. Or when your partner gets up in the middle of the night, it’s not really soundproof, and so everybody’s awake. So there’s so many considerations. It’s wonderful that my team and other teams more cross-functionally are part of these design discussions, so we can share that these are things that we need to consider, as well that they’re higher priority than maybe they were even a handful of years ago, because we do recognize that so many of these things do impact sleep, right? So there should be a world in which we’re going through all of our renovation cycle that we’re removing some of these obstacles, right? So you don’t have to travel with the black electrical tape or the chip clip to keep All the top tips that I’ve heard from road warriors, which we all probably are too, that shouldn’t be required of you. We really do want to make sure that you can assume that you’re going to be in a room that doesn’t have some of those common foibles.
Emily:
Yeah, and Rachel in the chat has said she started traveling with a noise-canceling sleep mask to black out lights and noise. I hadn’t even, I didn’t know such a thing existed. So well done, Rachel. And also in the chat, people were talking about menopause and different, I guess, life stages where maybe your body temperature changes. Emily, maybe over to you on kind of maybe what are some of the scents or fragrances or things that can help with hormone regulation?
Emily:
Gosh, well that’s difficult because People’s hormones fluctuate, you know, really by the minute. And so the most important thing with hormone regulation is that, to keep in mind, is that everybody’s different. But typically, people will have a heightened sensitivity, not a decreased sensitivity. So the only time that people had a, that I’ve experienced that people when traveling had a decreased sensitivity was during COVID when people were losing their sense of smell. And then that was very interesting. They were saying these products smell off. They don’t have any enjoyable scent, but they had lost their sense of smell. Other than that time, typically what we see is that people are extra sensitive due to either hormone fluctuations or just being out of sync, traveling, or perhaps exposed to a virus or an irritant that creates some sort of inflammatory response. And so just being cognizant that you don’t, when making products, especially for everybody, but especially for travelers, you need that right level of a sensory experience that can be impactful, like we want the lavender to have an impact, but it needs to be at the appropriate level so that it doesn’t overwhelm and create another problem. Because again, even though I’m such a huge fan of these oils, I believe in them, I’ve worked with them for 25 years, I know what a difference good ingredients can make in your everyday life. It’s it’s also true that sometimes people think, well, if it’s good for me, more of it’s going to be good for me. And that’s, you know, not always the case, especially using natural organic ingredients, because we react so quickly to those you don’t want to overwhelm. So, and I think in terms of menopause in particular, I’m also going through menopause. I can’t believe it. It’s the best I feel like. And the hot flashes bothered me so much that a few years ago, I created a skin cooling lotion. that had a lot of spearmint and peppermint, and when the air interacts with the skin, it provides a cooling sensation because I was getting so hot at night. But I can tell you another trick, if you don’t have a product like that, another trick is a little counterintuitive, actually taking a hot shower or a hot bath and allowing your body to cool before getting in bed a little bit, not so you’re shivering or anything, but taking that time to put the moisturizer on and get ready for bed. It’s actually the cooling down that helps induce sleep and relaxation. which is weird. Sometimes people think they need to be really warm and cozy and that’s what helps you fall asleep and that’s why a warm bath works. But the warm bath actually works by heating your body up a little bit all over and then the process of cooling down makes you feel so relaxed and sleepy. So that’s- Amanda, I see you nodding a lot.
Emily:
Thank you. I mean, but what’s your research about bathing before bed?
Amanda:
Well, I think a lot of it has to do, some of it is the regulation of your nervous system as well, right? It’s just, it’s also the intentionality. I think a big piece of how my team sees wellness is we don’t want to tell people how to be well. right? Everybody has their own approach, their own routines. We don’t really want to be didactic about wellness. All we want to do is really just make sure we’re setting you up for success as you see it. So for example, I shower at night because it’s part of my wind down routine. And You know, so then that becomes an incredibly important part of how I get ready for bed and how I create a sense of sort of this cocooning. And it’s this cocooning, right, this building out. Somebody mentioned in the chat, right, they have sort of a way and a process that they have when they stay in hotels. And we did a giant survey that was about a year long. And one of the things that came out of it that I was so surprised, everybody has sort of their approach to how they stay in hotels, and especially if they’re a frequent traveler, how they get ready for sleep. And some of that, believe it or not, means moving around furniture or how they set up the bed, where their phone is plugged in. Ideally, it’s not by your bedside table, but for most people it is. And I do actually travel with white noise. Somebody mentioned that. I have a little tiny thing that I got on Amazon. It’s a game changer, because I have white noise at home. Not because it’s loud in the hotel room, but because that’s what my body is used to, and it signals. And then I have a specific routine. But for so many people, that act of showering in the morning or in the evening is part of their routine, that I think it also has an impact. And if you have the benefit of a beautiful, intentional product like Emily’s, It makes it more special. It does make you savor and contemplate the act of bathing, which is a lovely thing. It’s another reason that increasingly we’re building thermal experiences. Even when we don’t have spas in our hotels, that we have the ability for people to contrast bathe, right? Where it’s either a sauna or a steam room, a hot experience contrasted with a cool experience. Elite athletes have known this for a very long time. I mean, this is something that’s been happening since, you know, Roman times. But, you know, increasingly people see that this is a big part, not just of biohacking and being, you know, whatever the most, having the best longevity. It’s also a great way for people to feel better if they’ve got chronic illness, for them to wind down. or gear up, whatever it is that they’re trying to do. All of these things are incredibly, incredibly important to a lot of people. So all we’re trying to do is match them and meet them where they are, as opposed to saying, do these 10 things and you’ll be well, which I think is a very dated way of looking at wellness and sleep in particular.
Nancy:
And it’s also a stressful way. You know, you tell people, here are the 10 things you need to do. And it’s like, oh, crap. I didn’t do that one.
Amanda:
Where’s my checklist? I got a 9 out of 10. Shoot.
Nancy:
I can go to Grips and also be a sponsor. You know, I think it’s wonderful what you’re doing. While I have you, where do you, and I don’t even know if it’s still a thing, but where do both of you stand on signature scents for hotel brands? That was a thing. And we’re going to develop our own signature scent. And there was such a divided audience on that. Is that still a thing? And how do you feel about that?
Emily:
I think that it is still a thing, Mom, but it’s really, I find it most successful when the signature scent or signature ingredient, signature formulation makes sense. What I mean by that is, I don’t know that it works just to do it. I think that if you’re in a particular location, it makes sense. For example, We designed a product for Four Seasons Lanai, and we partnered with a farm to get the kukui. And first of all, kukui oil is wonderful and soothing for the skin, especially any sun-exposed skin. But it also helped tell the story of where you were visiting. It helped bring in the local community It actually helped, we got it from Place Albertus Farm, helped bring people going to tourism, visiting their farm and learning more about the local culture, which makes travel more meaningful, I think. So, if it’s done in a really purposeful way that adds to the guest experience and gives the guest something new to try to learn about and reinforce their emotional connection with the journey that they’ve taken, I think it can be incredibly successful. What I think doesn’t work is, maybe as well, is when it’s done just It’s not done as intentionally and it’s just a fragrance that’s, you know, hotel brands are not known for, well, I shouldn’t say, most hotel brands are not known for their expertise in shampoo. doesn’t really, although, you know, there are some spas and well, there are, but doesn’t really always make sense unless, unless they have that ability to bring something truly special. And then I do think it’s, it’s very impactful. But, um, you know, it’s not always easy to do that. And, um, You know, it just depends. I can tell you if I’ve had other experiences with hotels, actually one of the first properties I worked with wanted us to do a bunch of research on oils that stimulated appetite because they wanted people to eat in their restaurants. little bit like well, you know They’re gonna eat they’re gonna it’s just But you know, so there is some other use cases that perhaps Work for different properties in there and their goals and it might have Might have might might create a meaningful experience But it just has to be done in the right way and in the thoughtful way for it to really work the way the property is expected to.
Nancy:
Okay, I just remember when I was in the hotel business and I had my office filled with I don’t know how many vials of scents, and I honest to God thought I was going to explode from, you know, well, this and here, but, you know, to have a signature scent throughout the hotel so it’s easily identified by brand. And boy, that raised so much discussion. You know, it could be offensive, but it could be wonderful. Amanda, did you ever discuss any of that stuff, or?
Amanda:
Absolutely. I mean, Emily mentioned, first of all, Emily is the authority here, so I’ll only add my two cents. The sense of place, I think, is a huge piece, right? That you’re not using lemongrass in Chicago, right? It means, to make sense, one, but two, it really can evoke, you know, sent memories or Brand affinity, right? I’m thinking of scents that we all associate with certain brands. In past Live, I worked with Weston. Their white tea scent is really iconic, and they have a very big retail business built around it. Love it or hate it, it was a memorable scent that was threaded through the whole experience in their Heavenly Spas. and in their guest rooms, of course. You know, I think the thing that when we start thinking about it is sort of scent zoning. So in my world, yes, we’re thinking now my team is helping, you know, the broader team talk about scent, but we’re also thinking about, okay, you don’t want to have nose fatigue. But, yeah. Nose fatigue, man. Nose fatigue. Can you imagine, right, if you had this beautiful scent and you’re on the treadmill for 45 minutes and you’re inhaling this, just fresh, clean, energizing, right? And almost invisible, but if it were different, you would notice, right? And in the spa, the constant discussion we often have is, And it’s very much dependent upon the layout. If it’s better to let the product speak for themselves. So many of our products that we use in spas have beautiful scents of their own, all of which are functional to those individual products. And so sometimes those scents, you know, spas just have their own scent to them, whether or not you’re infusing something in the air or not. But there’s also sometimes an arrival experience and sort of a ritual to how you’re greeted as a guest and how you begin a spa experience. So it’s situational. And I think from a hotel standpoint, particularly at the luxury level, it’s important. One thing that I will say, Emily brought it up, you know, and we were talking about pillow sprays. You know, an interesting conversation we had with our Waldorf Astoria team is we thought about wanting to create wellness experiences with essential oils because essential oils are so impactful. The challenge that we had was there’s a reason that pillow sprays are as popular as they are. The throw or how far you can scent, right, is fairly limited to that pillow. It typically is formulated so it doesn’t ruin linens. as they’re laundered, especially if they’re fine linens. In Waldorf Astoria, we have beautiful fronteit linens. We don’t want those to get oil spots or stains on them, right? These are all real things that we think about. But we started thinking about, OK, if we were to do a beautiful scented something, that could be a takeaway, right? You bring it home with you. The scent is embedded. The challenge is the throw, right? You don’t want it going into the curtains and any throw rugs we have and getting embedded so that if somebody finds they don’t like a scent, you can’t get rid of it, right? There’s no way to get rid of that. Whereas with a pillow spray, you just don’t spray it and you’re fine usually. So these are all things that, you know, have come up in my world in terms of, okay, it’s great when you like it, but what about when you don’t, or when you’re allergic, or when you decide you’ve had enough, right? Or your husband comes in and he’s like, oh, what is that? Can we get rid of that, right? But you thought it was lovely. There’s all sorts of dynamics at play that we really have to think through, because that is incredibly polarizing. And once you start thinking about it, if you don’t like it, It’s really, really hard to get to sleep, be happy in that space. So it’s something that we spend a lot of time thinking about, believe it or not.
Emily:
Yeah, you’ve given me a lot to think about, particularly nose fatigue. We’re getting towards the close of the hour and we wanted to get a little personal. I mean, why don’t we talk about, and we’ll start with you, Emily. I mean, what’s your personal sleep routine? You mentioned your son likes to bring his own pillow. I mean, what helps you wind down at night and do you have any tips for people who might be watching?
Emily:
Oh, gosh. Well, for me, I love a warm shower or a warm bath. I always heavily moisturize myself from top to toe. I feel like I need to look like a glazed donut before I go. Go to bed because I’m I feel like I’m super dry skin, especially when I travel I am a huge fan and so excited To go to a Hilton next because I’m a huge fan of the calm app sleep stories. I love The train I love that Harry Styles sleep story. I know it’s I
Amanda:
Also, it’s really good. It’s really wonderful. They are. And I particularly love the train ones. I agree. And one about a glacier as well.
Emily:
You know, I find that running a business and, you know, having kids and being at a certain age, my mind’s always racing. And we were talking about this a little earlier before we were live that I actually had trouble sleeping last night. But what really got me was then the worrying about not sleeping. And so I find things like those, those stories or, or something to distract my mind enough to just stop racing, really, um, really empower empowering it that if I knew I could just listen to it a Calm story. I think I would just even feel better even going to sleep knowing that I have that option if I wake up And I’m jet-lagged and I can’t get back to sleep. Just knowing that I have a tool is kind of comforting So, you know, I I don’t know if I fully answered your question, but you don’t Those are things I turn to
Emily:
Amanda, what about you?
Amanda:
I have a very robust, probably a little too robust. I stop eating, full stop, by 6.45. No matter what, the kitchen is closed. I find if I eat or drink anything significant after that, even on the weekend, I know if I bend that rule on the weekend, I pay for it. Um, I also take a night shower for a lot of practical reasons, but mostly because it is a wonderful way to relax. Um, I have even sort of a wind down that I do with either meditation or calm and app like calm. And then personally, and this is not something that coincides with the advice that we’ve gotten from our sleep expert. do all of the New York time puzzles every single night. That is what I do. I do the crossword. I do the, you know, all of all the, um, the word, all the brands, all the, all of the things. And sometimes they only make it through one, but I do them all. And it’s my way of like turning off the, the sort of monkey mind, the chatter in your brain, um, and, and being hyper-focused on something very specific. And it allows me to turn things off. And, and really, that works like a charm. I also, you know, it’s also the wake-up that impacts. I wake up pretty much at the same time every day. Of course, I do have to wake up earlier, never later, earlier, in order to accommodate, you know, our businesses outside the U.S. and in Asia Pacific in particular. But I try and have a very specific routine, and I try not to vary it when I’m in a hotel. which is why, you know, somebody mentioned white noise. As I said, I travel with white noise, but we’re in the process of finding alarm clocks that have white noise to that. And I also make it a habit. So we have from our partner Lofty, they make these incredible night lights that are red. And so they’re just bright enough where you do not have to turn on lights, even dim lights while you’re getting up inevitably to use the bathroom, which is many of us, you know, various life stages. Or when you’re waking up with a baby, or any number of reasons that your sleep gets disrupted at night, that you don’t have to turn on lights, which is one of the things that really brings you into that state of wakefulness. That’s a really easy way to make a change that has made an enormous impact. And those nightlights are things that we’re doing in Hiltons as well, right? It’s just making sure One, that it’s easy, right, that it’s just, ideally it doesn’t just come on on its own, because that also drives people crazy, but that it’s either motion sensitive or very easy to turn on a dim light, whether it’s under cabinet or a red light. So these are all things that, you know, small changes that make a big difference.
Emily:
Amazing.
Nancy:
Nance, you wanna chime in with your own? Well, you know, I’m listening to this and I’m thinking being on the flip side of menopause, I do everything that you’re doing in the morning. So I do the puzzles, I do the shower, I do all of that stuff to get going and to make sure my brain is functioning. And so your evening routine, your nighttime routine is my morning routine. At night, and I will tell you there is light at the end of the hot flash tunnel. At night what I tend to do is, our cats play a big part in this. There’s great comfort in those cuddly little guys. And I have treats by my bed, and there’s something about sleeping with a cat. Other people may find it gross, but I make sure that the boys are on the bed and we’re together, and I hold on to each one of them, and I feel them breathing, and that kind of is a bit of a meditation for me. And moisturizing. I tell you, when your hormones go, you are always dry in your face. So that’s why I love, again, the Australian plumb line, Emily. So that’s my, and you, Em? Goldfusser, what are you up to?
Emily:
I do it all wrong, which is basically what inspired today’s conversation. And I’m so grateful, actually. I mean, we’re coming to the top of the hour, and I’m really so grateful to you, Emily and Amanda, for sharing your insights. And really, thank you so much to Lather for supporting this conversation today. And our first LinkedIn Live, I mean, I just, I’ve come away with so much, and I hope that everybody who’s listening in and watching, and also people who are able to enjoy the recording of this. I don’t know if anybody else has anything to add. I mean, we’ve got some great comments in the chat about people and their personal opinions about scent and nighttime routines and wake-up routines. It is also personal. I think that is one of the main takeaways today that as hoteliers who are dealing with, you know, hundreds of thousands of guests that come through the doors, you know, how do you create a personal experience for every individual, and also yet at the same time maintain brand standards. So I feel like we could have a whole other conversation about that. Nance, anything else you want to end it off?
Nancy:
This has been an absolutely wonderful, special way to celebrate hertelier’s fourth anniversary. And I have learned a lot. And thank you so much for joining us and for being here.
