Josiah:
What’s going on in San Francisco? I can’t think of someone better to answer this question than Ali Wunderman, a fourth-generation San Franciscan, an award-winning travel writer who has been featured everywhere from Forbes to the Michelin Guide. In this episode, we discuss what’s going on in the city, misconceptions, what’s so cool about this place and how we can all move forward together.
Ali:
I mean, if you look outside the window, it’s a beautiful 65-degree day. There are people walking on Pier 7, but there’s a lot going on in San Francisco. A very limited portion of that is being reflected in national media. I think everyone who’s listening and everyone in this room has seen the headlines about the doom loop and the hellscape that is San Francisco. It is experiencing a lot of problems that other locations in the world that were very heavy-handed against the pandemic and as a result, saw a lower loss of life are dealing with now. We’re seeing a lot of unhoused people. We’re seeing car break-ins, not too much violent crime. But the media has really honed in on those aspects of what’s going on in San Francisco and I can say from being here that it’s really a small part of the whole story here. The reality is there’s a lot of tourism here right now. I’ve spoken to so many tourists couldn’t find one with anything negative to say. I tried. The ones that were even aware that anything was going on in San Francisco didn’t care and they were just happy to see their sea lions and walk across the Golden Gate Bridge and take the cable car and they have a really good time. So what’s going on in San Francisco is kind of a lot and kind of nothing. It depends on your perspective. But it is an interesting conversation right now because, especially as someone who works in the media, how do you reflect the realities of a destination while at once setting people up for success from a safety standpoint but to ensuring that they are not being misled by false accusations of what is actually happening? To that point.
Josiah:
Let’s talk a little bit about the national narrative in some media outlets around San Francisco. You and I were talking before this around other parts of the world, but had gone through maybe similar sized even cities, going through similar situations, through the pandemic, and coming out of the other side and these other places aren’t maybe getting the same treatment. What’s causing that, I guess, on a media narrative level?
Ali:
It is really interesting. So I went to Auckland in March and they’re having similar problems with unhoused people and car break-ins – Same sort of thing where it wasn’t happening as much before. And yet the international narrative about New Zealand is that they dominated COVID, they closed their borders, no one died and they did great and everything’s great and perfect and green. And that’s just not true. They’re dealing with a lot of the same stuff we’re dealing with and a lot of unrest among the people who are very resentful about being stuck there for so long. And that story is not being told. And honestly, as a fourth generation San Franciscian, the story of San Francisco being the lightning rod for anger about progressive politics is our entire city’s history, go back to 1849 and people will say the same things. Then in the New York Times from the 1970s, they’ll say the same thing 1990s. It’s the same old thing. Bashing San Francisco is a national pastime for this country. What is being said now is the same old, tired story and it’s simply because people see San Francisco as the face of progressive politics, even though San Francisco is not nearly as progressive as some people might claim. I think it’s just politically motivated, because you see stories about San Francisco on social media. Whether they’re negative or positive, the comments are almost copy pasted detriments of the city, criticisms of the city from people who have never stepped foot in California, and it’s like you can’t really trust that as accurate. You have to come here and see for yourself and see that neighborhoods are thriving, people are applying for business loans and successfully setting up new bars, new rooftop bars, new restaurants, new hotels. People are having a good time here and they’re just not in the comments section on Facebook. They’re out rollerblading through Golden Gate Park. So you might not know that people will really like it here and that the things that you read in the media are not the entire story of San Francisco. So I think it’s politically motivated, I think it’s boring, I think it’s nothing new and whatever problems we have, there’s a reason. There’s a Phoenix on the flag of San Francisco. We will once again, like we’ve done from earthquakes and other bust cycles we will rise from the ashes. The city will be fine and better than ever.
Josiah:
It’s really important to look at history in moments like these, and I appreciate you calling that because I am a bit of a history nerd and I’ve just been recently going through some of the media narratives around San Francisco. Like you say, it’s more than 100 years of going through these same kind of cycles, so this is not new and I think it’s interesting to kind of take this from the national media level to the personal level. And you’ve traveled all over the world, but you decide to live here. What keeps you here and why don’t you move somewhere else?
Ali:
That’s a really good question, because I spent years trying to find home and I come back here and this is home. It obviously helps that my family is here, my roots are here, but ultimately I wouldn’t live here if I didn’t love it. I love the weather. So does everybody. That’s why it’s a nice place for unhoused people to land. We have an incredibly beautiful European-style city these hills that connect each other and incredible Victorian Edwardian architecture. We have the ocean, we have the bay, we have gorgeous bridges. The city is just so beautiful. It’s the people people who are helpful, creative, innovative, pleasant to be around, like going outside. It’s a fun crowd. It’s a good crowd of people to hang out with. I really like the people and the food is incredible. I lived in Montana for four years, loved Montana. I couldn’t eat another meal there. I had to come home. I was missing the classic incredible food in San Francisco, whether that was at a place at a bar where you just walk up and get something, or a Michelin-starred restaurant. The food here is just out of this world and that’s because it attracts a diverse crowd of people from different backgrounds. They bring cuisines with them. It’s an international city, even if it is ultimately a very big small town with less than 850,000 people. Man, the food can’t beat that.
Josiah:
I’m glad you mentioned that. I wanted to ask about it. It does seem this city punches above its weight in terms of food and many others as well, and it’s always interesting to look at. Why is that? It’s the very nature of who we are here and how we welcome to people, how we structure things. If you look at the outcome, the end result is pretty incredible, even if you just look at a food and beverage perspective.
Ali:
Yeah, I think there is a prestige to being a cook or a chef here. The food scene here is known globally to be quite good. What it doesn’t have is that sense of social status that maybe you might find in New York or London. You can go out and have a really good meal here, at different price points. People generally go to the restaurants here to enjoy the meal rather than to say that they’ve been. There isn’t a lot of social cachet with saying that you’ve eaten at one place or another, whereas you might find that in other cities that are noted for their restaurants, and I love that. I love that. It’s very equitable, even if many of the meals are very expensive, but you can find great food at a lower price point too.
Josiah:
You and I have talked about the ecosystem of travel and hospitality and if we apply it to this context, I agree with you. There’s so much amazing stuff going on in this city, but I’m always thinking about how do we work together to get even better? And what comes to mind for you when you think about working together as hospitality providers, people in the travel ecosystem, to take San Francisco and the Bay Area to the next level? What do we need to be doing or thinking about?
Ali:
I think the key is collaboration, like we saw in Belize, like we’re seeing in other destinations. It’s a willingness to work together to solve a common problem, and I’m seeing that among leadership in the city. You see it at the hotel council, you see it in the mayor’s office, the DA’s office. You see a strong willingness to make San Francisco a hospitable city, a destination for travelers, because the people are already pretty friendly and welcoming the hotel managers, hotel staff, some of the warmest people in the world. The hotels are phenomenal they’re clean, they’re welcoming, they’re warm, they’re safe, they’re the place that you’d want to visit, and so I see a really great effort at the leadership level to collaborate. What I think the city needs is a cultural shift among the citizens to be invested in a mutual outcome. I think there’s a lot of culture clashing among the tech community, the long-standing San Francisco citizens, everyone in between, and my hope for San Franciscans would be that they could put their differences aside and be part of a solution together. I do feel that there is a lack of investment, particularly from people who are not from here originally, where they see the problems in San Francisco as a personal obstacle to obtaining the life that they want to live, and this is a community. What’s made San Francisco San Francisco all these decades is that sort of commune type approach. We are a progressive city and that comes with a real sense of community. That’s the beauty of San Francisco is that you might see the same person multiple times. It’s not a huge city and so if we could find a way to get everyone feeling invested and not as if San Francisco’s problems are in some way a personal challenge, then if we could get back that sense of community, then, like we see at Manny’s with the Civic Joy Fund and seeing people go out and clean up the streets together and having a wonderful experience doing so, I think that’s the key and that is inherent to what San Francisco is. So if we can recapture that somehow and work together as citizens and work with our government, work with our leadership, then we can tackle this as one instead of coming at it from so many different angles.
Josiah:
It’s a great message, whether you live in San Francisco, in the Bay Area or you’re some other part, I think, wherever you are in the world, if you can apply this sort of mentality. I think, for those in San Francisco, in the Bay Area, I think one of the challenges that we face is historically there have I heard someone describe it as almost like a minor mentality where you come with this intention of extraction right, exactly, and you know, obviously, like 150 years ago that looked like decimating a lot of the mountains up towards Tahoe and just to take right. And then more recently there’s, you know, some that have approached that in the business world like that, and if we think more holistically and we think about okay, what does it look like to be a good ancestor to future generations that will be here? How do we not only make the city good today, but work together to make something that could be beautiful for decades to come? That’s really where I think something special could be created here?
Ali:
Absolutely yeah. We are not a place where coming to get yours is going to be the solution to a community problem. And while I understand that it’s difficult to live here sometimes, that there are challenges and discomfort, I do think that getting rid of that identity as a place to come, make a bunch of money and then go home, come here, live here, but invest in it, be part of it, and then we can have our community back and solve problems together, because I don’t see that happening if everyone lives in a silo.
Josiah:
The good news is there is a rich fabric of hospitality providers here that is doing that and has done that for some time, and you reference some of the new openings that are happening across the city. So this is happening and that’s it’s really exciting to see it feels like that can continue to happen, and I’m really excited to see where that goes, as more people adopt this kind of mentality.
Ali:
I think the hospitality community could actually serve as a model. They’re all in competition with each other, and yet I’m watching them choose to collaborate. I know that there are only so many guests and there are rooms to fill, and I’m seeing the GMs of hotels, I’m seeing tour operators, I’m seeing restaurants work together to find solutions. So it’s definitely possible, even when in direct competition, and so I think we could really collectively learn from them, and I know they’re willing to share how they do it. So I’m really excited about that. I think that’s part of San Francisco’s hospitality nature is that they want to work together, they want to be part of a community, and I’m seeing that happen among the hospitality providers anyway.
Josiah:
I love it.
